This House believes there is no such thing as a 'man's job'. Discuss.
Are certain jobs only for men? Are certain jobs only for women? Do you think there should or is a difference in how women and men are paid? What is the situation in China compared to the UK? Are there any other places in the world where you can think of examples? Are there different barriers to men and women at job in China?
Should job titles have different names for men and woman...for example, policeman/policewoman...actor/actress?
Can you be too-feminist? Should your gender affect finance? Does it?
Are men and women different in terms of what they are capable of? If so, how?
Before you comment listen to this video about women in Afghanistan who have become carpenters.
NATO women in Afghanistan
Here are some additional articles about women in 'men's jobs'.
5 dangerous jobs for women
Insurance and Gender
Making it in a 'man's world'
You must refer to the video and at least one of the articles in this discussion. Quote from any source from the library.
I think every job is equal for men and women, they all have right to get jobs. However,there are some jobs which women can do it but it is not suitable to women,such as fireman.
ReplyDeleteIn China, both men and women have rights to get anyjobs. But companies or organizations would like choose the people whom they think is suitable.For example, most of nurses are women.On the other hands, most of polices are men.
i am disagree with Micheal. in my opinion, men has stranger than women, so that men should do some effort works. In addition,the culture in China, male are responsible for the outside and female are responsible for inside, the traditional and common has been for a long time. So I think, there is some work is specially suitable for men to do.
ReplyDeleteI think no every job is equal for men and women. Everybody can choice their jobs by themselves. But many jobs are not suit for men or women.
ReplyDeleteof course, many jobs just recruit men or just recuit women, it is very normal. Some jobs like fingersmith is just suit for women. Men can learn it but maybe most gravidas donnot want a man to helf her.
I agree with Micheal's view. Anybody have qualification to get any job, no matter the man and woman. But every job has character. If this person not have this character so I think this person do not this job better. For example, the man is strong and brave can do job like policeman; the woman is exquisite and perceptual can do job like author.
ReplyDeleteI think anybody have rights to get anyjob, but the job has different needs. So we have to give up to choose some jobs if we do not suitable. I think if we can find a job is suitable our character, this is very happiness.
ReplyDelete'Selecting the right person for the right job is the largest part of coaching' Philip Crosby, 2001
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, everybody has the same right to get a jopb, it is the basic right to life. But in fact, there are some very difficult work that did not suitable for women working, its working situation is very difficult or the person may be carry heavy items.So, sometimes we should have some choices to judge these jobs are suitable for women or not.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Micheal. Although the men are strong, but the women also have obligations to get the job. Just as he said,most of nurses are women in China. They have a good performance. Besides, as the police, also have women, they also do very well to finish the work.
ReplyDeleteThus, I think the job not only suit the men also the women. Women and men are equal relations to get the job.
In my view, no certain jobs are only for men or women, and there shouldn't be different in how men and women are paid. Because men and women have equal homan rights and there shouldn't exist difference in how they are paid or any discrimination aganist women.However, in China, many companies and department set up some barriers to ask for only men jobs or women jobs.For example, housekeeper job is almost designed for women, and mearly no men do this.I think this is caused by job's attributes and features. Sometimes some jobs is not fit for men or women to do,so we should fully understand jobs you want to get.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Margaret,Common sense and our experiences as humans inform us that service women largely possess the capacity to operate modern machine. Indeed , present-day machine are best characterised by extensive automation and digitisation. Granted, physically women are on average not as strong as men , nevertheless, it is an indisputable fact that most of them have the mental ability and the psychological soundness to operate the highly-automated machine that do not really require big biceps.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Micheal.Some job is more suitable for men,some is for women better.But no matter who do these work,the companies are want do it better.men or women both has choice job's right.But you'd better choose a good job suit for you.In China,we don't a fire women like another counties.Perhaps,we will have some nurse for men,but just only a few.
ReplyDeleteI think Regardless of women and men for get a job.
ReplyDeleteIn china, for example,may be Physical strength live is only for men's job and some about lady's way may be is women's job.
of course job titles have different name.I think affect finance it doesn't matter.
I agree with Tom's opinion,Some job is more suitable for men,some is for women better.But no matter who do these work.
ReplyDelete"They key issues affecting the workforce are age and skills, particularly in a recession," says Kate Lloyd,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Micheal.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Michael. From birth, men and women accept the same education and face the same difficulties. So men and women have the same right to get the job. In China, women find the appropriate job easily like men. Just some special works have to need men, such as miners. In Arab, women are not allowed to go out to work, which is very unfair. I am feminist.
ReplyDelete“More countries have understood that women's equality is a prerequisite for development.”
ReplyDeleteBy Kofi Annan, Seventh secretary-general of the United Nations, 2001 Nobel Peace Prize.
“Never underestimate the power of a woman,” by Nellie McClung (Important figure in women getting to vote in the USA).2003
ReplyDelete"I think the way we'll change things in the industry is by having women on site and they'll act as beacons of change within the industry itself," said Tutt.
ReplyDeleteIn my view, everyone is equal.So I agree with Micheal. In modren socielty, both woman and man have the same rigths to get job. Discrimination is not exist recently. There was no rule to regular which job must use man and which job must use woman. When we want to get a job, we will compete with others. How can woman and man can get the job, I think it depends on their personal ability. Each job should have a suitable person to do it. If so, this job will show its value.
ReplyDeleteIn china, there maybe a little bit different. Because the social relationsof people is complicated. But lot of people got their job that depended on their ability and knowledge. So woman and man are also fair in China.
I agree with ZHAO's opinion taht both man and woman have the rights to get a job. But I think each person need to find a suitable job. Not all the jobs are suitable for man or woman. For example that the woman could be a nurse better than a man. But a man could do the fix much better than woman. So both man and woman have the superiority to do some jobs. So they need to get the same salary and the same opportunity to get a job. In China, the problem is worse than that in UK. Like a woman who has a babby would be fire or do not get job promtion. It's terrible!
ReplyDelete"The major barrier women will face is the societal mindset about the natural gender roles of men and women"
ReplyDelete“Equality between women and men is a fundamental right, a common value of the EU, and a necessary condition for the achievement of the EU objectives of growth, employment and social cohesion”
ReplyDeleteStated by Hassan, 2002
Did anyone watch the video?
ReplyDeleteWhat about historical change? Being a teacher or a doctor before was considered a job only for men....
I disagree with many other posters. I think that women have a human right to equality, and should be able to enter the job that they want to. It should be about the individual person's ability and suitability to do the job. Since women make up roughly 50% of the world's population, it makes no sense to say that they can't do certain jobs.
ReplyDeleteMy partner works in law enforcement, and many of his collegues are female and they are very capable police officers, and given the same training as men. My father is an electrician and does work on building sites, but I helped him do demolition work when he decided to build more on our house.
In the UK, we have equality and diversity laws, meaning that any employer has to look at the person and not their gender or their sex. I think that when we say things like 'men are better for this kind of job', then this is a kind of discrimination.
Can people please make clear what they mean when they say when they say that 'men are better than some jobs than women'? I think this is just making an assumption, as not all men are the same, and not all women are the same either. They are not football teams.
Does anyone know a person doing a 'non-traditional' job?
I disagree with manman. Men and women are independent individuals. Women cannot rely on men every thing. She should be independent. The women would live very wonderful without men. The basic about have a good life, which is to find own job.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with manman.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the men are strong, but the women also have obligations to get the job. Just as he said,most of nurses are women in China. They have a good performance. Besides, as the police, also have women, they also do very well to finish the work.
Thus, I think the job not only suit the men also the women. Women and men are equal relations to get the job.
"Liberation movements from all the experience, the success of the revolution depends on the degree of participation of women's liberation movement."
Vladimir Lenin,1918
I disagree with manman.
ReplyDeleteHistory has proven that women are fully capable of performing well in every job . Admittedly, gender inequality was a highly controversial issue in the twentieth century. However, now ten years into the new millennium , women can learn and teach , work and supervise, vote and be voted in most countries just like men. Given this sweeping progress in gender equality, there is really no sense in denying them the right to stand up for enjoy their job.
What does everyone think about what 'evashandor said...'?
ReplyDelete(and, check your class notes, I'm sure I taught you more ways to say 'I disagree...')
I disagree everyone without Manman. In chinese culture, male are responsible for the outside and female are responsible for inside. I think the man is easy to suit for difficult situation in social life. Women should do some easy work and housework, also they must take a good care of their children.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Allen! I think the women need to stay in the house to do the house work! They need to take care their children. They need to take care their family. It's so tired that to finish the work and back to home to deal with the house work.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, following the liberation of the feminism, women should have the same social position and right as men in the society. On the other hand, according the improvement of society, women are capable as men, even exceeding them at sometimes at some occupations. So, I consider no jobs that women cannot undertake, and also they should be paid as same as men. However, there is a fact that some occupations are more suitable for men than women, even though women also can undertake, like police. Because the job usually is dangerous and men have huge strength than women, it is more suitable for men. Referring to job titles, I think they are just names, which have no effect on women’s right, and may be use the different titles are easily managed by companies and government.
ReplyDeleteFrom the video, we can find that women can do a lot of jobs very well and successful, it proves that women are capable for every job. However, I think if there are men can help them, may be their business can be promoted more quickly. I think it is reasonable that insurance and pension costs are different between women and men, because I consider insurance companies make the different rules for women and men according the actual social and marketing researches.
I think evashandor has a good idea, but I think I have another view. Actually, women should have an equal right to get a job what they want, but, naturally, women are different from men at some natural abilities, like women naturally are careful and earnest than men. Thus, may be some jobs are truly more suitable for men than women, vice versa. So, I do not think it is a kind of discrimination.
ReplyDelete“The unemployment statistics of our country shows that the rate of jobless women is greater than that of men because they face several social, traditional and cultural barriers that prevent them from going for a job, even if they want to.” Stated by Lakshmi Nanda, October 15,2010.
ReplyDeleteI am not entirely sure about whole of evashandor's opinion.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely everyone has right to get the job which they have enough skill to do.
However,there are some dangerous jobs for women.Maybe we can not find many persuasive arguments to convince you.But the fact is the best evidence for my opinion. In some dangerous jobs, you can find that the number of men is much bigger than women, such as soldier,fireman,forest ranger, and more.
"Women are disproportionately assigned jobs in departments with fewer job titles."
ReplyDeleteStated by Judith A. Levine,
last updated on 2011-7-8.
I disagree with zhao.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, everybody has the same right to get a jopb, it is the basic right to life. But in fact, there are some very difficult work that did not suitable for women working, its working situation is very difficult or the person may be carry heavy items.So, sometimes we should have some choices to judge these jobs are suitable for women or not.
I will have to refute Zhao and Allen's house completely - do you have any proof to back up your points? Can you prove to me that this is the best way for women to live? You mention culture, and while that can be a strong-driving point in how someone thinks, it is not the only thing. Also, all cultures change over time: I know it is not true that every woman in China stays at home with children nowadays.
ReplyDeleteYou make many assumptions too: how do you know that a woman has a family? Just because a woman is capable of having children, does NOT mean she has to get married and start a family. People should be able to do the job they enjoy and are best at, not what someone else thinks they should be best at. I think you assume every woman will have or want the same lifestyle - this is not true.
Also, for your statement to be true, women would have to be able to rely on men. Some women want to rely on themselves, and are not interested in relationships and having kids, or not interested in men. It is not true that all women will get married and have kids.
I would also like Michael Wang to explain to me what he means by 'some jobs are too dangerous for women', and I would like proof of this too. Is there a real special reason women cannot do the same jobs as men? I do not understand the statement about danger, and it makes no sense. Having read the BBC article about girls doing construction work, I can see no reason why a woman can't do physically demanding work.
Tina: can you tell me where you get your information about personalities? I do not think women have one personality type and men another - this sounds like generalisation to me.
A lot of students have made very general statements - please provide proof, or reference the articles Teacher Summan has given you when you make generalising statements! Your teachers will be much tougher on you about this when term starts!
"Women and men have equal but different missions in life, each pursuing their own path to holiness. For women to adopt the lifestyle of men is not only contrary to their nature and divinely given task, but betrays a lack of self-respect for their own dignity and worth."stated by Sichos In English,2004
ReplyDelete"The movement toward full political, economic, and social equality for men and women.”
ReplyDeletestated by Baumgardner,2005
I see ZHAO's point, but if a job is made just for men or women, that means men and women do not have equal rights to get a job originally. It also tells people there are some jobs just suitbale for women, so women shouldn't take part in men's jobs. I think it's wrong in some extent.
ReplyDeleteI would like to say women and men should have the same opportunity to get a job.
ReplyDeleteAlthough there are two different genders existing, the former world has passed away when women or men had be chosen by the jobs and tradition.
The change in Afghanistan is a really rare happening, however, it proved that woman can do a so called "man's job" like carpenter.
When battles have left a world with few men, the women worked in all sectors of society and their contribution and skills are no less than men.
Micheal, I don't see your point of view. Your explanation is opposed to your point.
ReplyDeleteI think the suitable job for men as you metioned means a man's job.
The article (5 Dangerous Jobs) show that the women can achieve the most dangerous jobs in the world like the out-space mechanic and pedophile chaser. They chose these jobs for the dreams, the interests and the life goals but the gender.
The capability of a person don't depend on the genders.
"The human development brings changed cultural attitudes toward gender equality in virtually any society that experiences the various forms of modernization linked with economic development."
ReplyDeleteStated by Ronald Inglehart and Pippa Norris,2003.